PAS now offers prosperous Sabah without Hudud? Not believable

The Malaysia Today reported that PAS would aim for a prosperous Sabah without Hudud. But can we trust PAS? I would say an emphatic NO!

Remember that earlier had talked about PAS for all when they contested against UMNO/BN together with the now defunct Pakatan Rakyat, but on winning the 13th General Election under Hadi leadership, they submitted a bill to the Parliament that is equivalent to introducing Hudud despite objections from other Pakatan Rakyat component parties.

Not only that, PAS wants to enforce Hudud in Peninsular Malaysia, but now offers "no Hudud" in Sabah for expediency reason merely because they want to win power in Sabah and since they have gone back on their promises (remember PAS for all? plus going against the agreement to decide on consensus basis in PR) there is no guarantee they will not go back on their promises to Sabah.

Remember decisions in Pakatan Rakyat are made subject to consensus and clearly that step to introduce the "Hudud" bill did not receive consensus of of PR component parties leading to breakup of Pakatan Rakyat.

And what did PAS do after that? PAS started overtures to get close to UMNO/BN despite knowing of all the scandals that had been committed by UMNO/BN. Not only that, they did not raise their voice against all the wrong doings of UMNO/BN including the heinous 1MDB scandal

How a party professing religion can ignore such wrong doings I do not know.

Group of 93 says Hudud must be rationally discussed by all Malaysians

It is not often that Malaysiakini the subscription based online newspaper published its articles for all to read. So avail yourself this rare opportunity and surf over to Malaysiakini: Hudud must be debated rationally by all M'sians.

They issued a joint statement listing among many others
. Non-Muslims are involved if victim
. East Malaysians didn't sign up for syariah when they joined Malaysia
. All have rights to discuss Hudud
. Might is not right

This joint statement is endorsed by an impressive list of 93 organizations:

The joint statement is endorsed by the following organisations:

1. All Women's Action Society (AWAM)
2. Anak Muda Harapan Malaysia (AMHM)
3. Angkatan Warga Aman Malaysia (WargaAMAN)
4. Archdiocesan Human Development Commission (AHDC) Kota Kinabalu, Sabah
5. Baramkini (Sarawak)
6. Belia Saint Aloysius Limbanak, Sabah
7. Borneo's Plight in Malaysia Foundation (BoPiM)
8. Borneo Resources Institute Malaysia, Sarawak (BRIMAS) ,
9. Consumer Association And Protection Sabah (CAPS)
10. Cornerstone Resources Berhad, Sabah
11. Damn the Dams, Sarawak
12. ENGAGE
13. Federation of Malaysian Indian Organisation (PRIMA)
14. Friends of Kota Damansara
15. Gerakan Anak Sarawak (GASAK)
16. Green Friends Sabah
17. Group of Concerned Citizens
18. Institute for Development of Alternative Living (IDEAL)
19. Islamic Renaissance Front (IRF)
20. Japan Graduates Association, Malaysia (JAGAM)
21. Jaringan Orang Asal SeMalaysia (JOAS)
22. Jaringan Tanah Hak Adat Bangsa Asal Sarawak (TAHABAS)
23. Jawatankuasa Bertindak Kuala Lumpur Tak Nak Insinerator
24. JIHAD for JUSTICE
25. Johor persahabatan Semparuthi
26. Kill The Bill
27. Komiti Belia Perlaksana Child of Jesus, Sabah
28. Komiti Belia Perlaksana Minintod, Sabah
29. Kumpulan Aktivis Mahasiswa Independen (KAMI)
30. Land, Empowerment, Animal, People (LEAP), Sabah
31. LLG Cultural Development Centre
32. Lingkarn Islam Traditional (LIT)
33. Maljis Perundingan Malaysian Agama Buddha, Kristian, Hindu, Sikh dan Tao (MCCBCHST)
34. Malaysia Christian Youth Association (MCYA)
35. Malaysia Trade Union Congress (MTUC), Sabah Division,
36. Malaysian Indians Progressive Association (MIPAS)
37. Malaysian Indians Transformation Action Team (MITRA)
38. Malaysian Students for Liverty
39. Malaysian Youth Care Association (PRIHATIN)
40. Monitoring Sustainable Globalisation (MSN)
41. National Indian Rights Action Team (NIAT)
42. Negeri Sembilan Chinese Assembly Hall (NSCAH)
43. Northern Green Youths, Sarawak
44. Oriental Hearts and Mind Study Institute (OHMSI)
45. Sabah Partners in Community Organising (Pacos Trust)
46. Peoples Green Coalition, Sarawak
47. People Welfare and Rights Organisation (POWER)
48. Penang Chinese Town Hall (PCTH)
49. Perak Women for Women Society (PWW)
50. Persatuan Alumni PBTUSM Kuala Lumpur dan Selangor
51. Persatuan Bekas Siswazah Univesiti dan Kolej di China, Malaysia (LiuHua)
52. Persatuan Kesedaran Komuniti Selangor (EMPOWER)
53. Persatuan Komuniti Prihatin Selangor Dan Kuala Lumpur (PRIHATIN)
54. Persatuan Masyarakat Selangor dan Wilayah Persekutuan (PERMAS)
55. Persatuan Promosi Hak Asasi Manusia (PROHAM)
56. Persatuan Rapat Malaysia (RAPAT)
57. Persatuan Sahabat Wanita, Selangor (PSWS)
58. Projek Dialog (PD)
59. Pusat Komunikasi Masyarakt (KOMAS)
60. Pusat Sumber Adat dan Mediasi Kaum Anak Negeri Sabah (PUSAKA)
61. Rise. Of. Sarawak. Efforts (ROSE)
62. Sabah Banking Employees' Union (SBEU)
63. Sabah Environmental Protection Association (SEPA)
64. Sabah Women’s Action Resource Group (SAWO)
65. Saccess Sarawak
66. Sahabat Rakyat
67. SALT Movement SALT
68. Sarawak Dayak Indigenous Association (SADIA)
69. Sarawak Women for Women Society (SWWS)
70. SAVE Rivers
71. Saya Anak Bangsa Malaysia (SABM)
72. Saya Anak Bangsa Malaysia in Australia
73. Selangor and Kuala Lumpur Hokkien Association Youth Section
74. Sembang-Sembang Forum, Sarawak
75. Sisters in Islam (SIS)
76. Solidarity for Civil Rights in China (SCRC)
77. Suara Rakyat Malaysia (SUARAM)
78. St. Marcellinus Church, Minintod, Sabah
79. St. Theresa Child of Jesus Church, Sabah
80. Tamil Foundation (TF)
81. Tamilar Action Force (TAF)
82. Tenaganita Women’s Force
83. Teoh Beng Hock Trust for Democracy
84. The Kuala Lumpur and Selangor Chinese Assembly Hall
85. Tim Pelayanan Belia Paroki Penampang, Sabah (TPBP)
86. Tindak Malaysia
87. United Chinese School Alumni Associations of Malaysia (UCSAAM)
88. We Are Malaysians
89. We Are One Race- Human Race-
90. Women’s Aid Organisation (WAO)
91. Women’s Centre for Change (WCC) Penang
92. Women Development Organisation of Malaysia
93. Writer Alliance for Media Independence (WAMI)

Is it OK to lie to non-Muslims? Taqiya

I have sat through the video, 3 things you probably don't know about Islam and its main points can be summarized as
1. There are contradictions in the Quran but Quran has provided a way to handle contradictions: if there are contradictions, the later verses will override the earlier verses
2. It is the obligation of every Muslim to strive till Sharia is imposed in the whole world (creeping Islam)
3. It is OK to lie to a non-Muslim as long as it advances the interest of Islam (Taqiya)

I have not read the Quran, perhaps later when I have done, but have found an article where they quote verses from the Quran at Lying (Taqiyya and Kitman). The verses are not quoted verbatim but explanations. However, since the verses are numbered it will be easy to refer to the Quran to look up the verses and this is what I intend to do when I get my hands on the free copy of translation of the Quran and I would encourage you to do the same.

But in the meantime, let me focus on 3 (Taqiya) and examine this recent incident where PAS has passed a bill to impose Hudud on Kelantan and Kelantan PAS was also reported to have said We have the numbers for Hudud in Parliament

Note that in 2011, PAS had pushed the Welfare State and the slogan PAS for all, supposedly to appease non-Muslims and now has turned around and pushed to impose Hudud despite strong objections from its allies in DAP.

Footnote: There don't seem to be any reference to lying to non-Muslims to advance the interest of Islam in Wikipedia: Taqiya, only mentions of lying in time of dangers, so this may mean we really have to read the Quran for ourself to establish the truth.

Video: 3 things you probably don't know about Islam

RPK's take on Hudud & PAS

As part of trying to understand the mind of Muslims and PAS, here is a reproduction of RPK's NO HOLDS BARRED: Thick in the head which incidentally repeated wha I had mentioned in my earlier post - Should non-Muslim have a say on Malaysia becoming an Islamic state?:

RPK: PAS requires non-Muslims to pay ‘Islamic’ tax other than income tax. Muslims pay zakat and non-Muslims pay kharaj. Is this not a violation of Article 11(2) of the Constitution?

At least now in addition to knowing the people of the book are referred to as dhimmis in an Islamic state, I now know the rest are called thimmies (also referred to as Ahl Zimmi?) and the tax paid by non-Muslims is called jizyah

Full text from RPK's article:

Grow up, PAS supporters. Stop acting like bloody spoiled children who throw tantrums every time someone does not agree with you. You are still far from matured. And until you show maturity do not expect us to show you respect. Respect must be earned. Stop demanding that we show you respect when you have not earned it.

NO HOLDS BARRED

Raja Petra Kamarudin

We are still seeing a lot of venom being spitted out because of my article on Hudud. The trouble is these people appear to think they have every right to propagate Hudud (just because they happen to be Muslim-Malays) and others have absolutely no right to oppose the issue.

They appear to have forgotten one very crucial issue. PAS is a political party. Therefore, whatever PAS says and does is politics. That is all it is. Politics. Nothing more nothing less.

Any political party is allowed to propagate and promote its objective, aspiration, ideology, mission, vision, manifesto, and what have you. This is the right of all political parties. And in that same spirit, any citizen of Malaysia has the right to disagree with what these political parties stand for.

It just happens to be that PAS promotes the Hudud issue. And those who do not support this issue are allowed to oppose it. What if PAS promotes the issue that every Malaysian citizen must be given a free cow? Do we have right to oppose that if we disagree with this idea?

What if PAS says that Malaysian males of the age of 15 must be allowed to vote and for females it should be the age of 11 because that is the age of puberty? Can we disagree with that proposal on grounds that Malaysians of age 11-15 are just too young and instead propose that all Malaysians of the age of 18 should be allowed to vote since they can get married and can drive a car at that age -- so they should be also allowed to vote at that age?

PAS members and Malaysians in general scream that Barisan Nasional and Umno do not respect the Federal Constitution of Malaysia. But do the PAS supporters respect the Constitution?

Article 8 (1 and 2) of the Constitution says all Malaysians must be treated equal. So how can Muslims suffer a different punishment from non-Muslims for crimes they commit? Is this not a violation of the Constitution? And is PAS respecting the Constitution by proposing different punishments for crimes based on your religion? The Constitution says there must be no discrimination based on religion.

PAS requires non-Muslims to pay ‘Islamic’ tax other than income tax. Muslims pay zakat and non-Muslims pay kharaj. Is this not a violation of Article 11(2) of the Constitution?

Why scream about Barisan Nasional and Umno not respecting the Constitution when we too do not respect it? We scream blue murder when it suits us. But we also violate the Constitution when it suits us.

This is what these emotional PAS supporters are overlooking. PAS is a political party. And everything they say and do must be seen as politics. And in politics we have a right to agree, disagree, and agree to disagree.

So what if PAS happens to be talking about Islam or Islamic laws? It is still politics since PAS is a political party. And in politics we have every right to agree or disagree with what you say and do.

Grow up, PAS supporters. Stop acting like bloody spoiled children who throw tantrums every time someone does not agree with you. You are still far from matured. And until you show maturity do not expect us to show you respect. Respect must be earned. Stop demanding that we show you respect when you have not earned it.

***********************************************

DAP will not compromise on hudud issue, says Karpal

(The Star) - DAP will not depart from its stand that Malaysia should not be an Islamic country.

DAP chairman Karpal Singh said PAS should not infringe the ruling by the five-men bench Supreme Court ruling in 1988, which decreed that the country is governed by secular laws.

“This ruling is not overturned and therefore the decision still stands.

“PAS has to accept the Supreme Court’s pronunciation,” he told a press conference at the Air Itam market yesterday.

He was commenting on PAS Youth chief Nasrudin Hassan Tantawi’s statement that it would continue to push for the implementation of Islamic laws in Malaysia despite fierce objection from the DAP.

Karpal Singh, who is also Bukit Gelugor MP, said the party would not compromise on its principles to appease its political partners.

He said DAP was not anti-Malay or anti-Islam but “what we want in absolute terms is what the Constitution provides for and for what the Supreme Court has decreed”.

“Syariah laws means hudud laws and hudud laws are inappropriate for a multi-cultural and multi-racial country like Malaysia.”

On the allegation made by Umno Youth that the state government was using the Penang Turf Club’s contribution to fund its hardcore poor eradication programme, Karpal Singh said Umno should not exploit the issue.

“The income of the country or at least part of it is from gambling.

“If Umno is right, then all governments (state and Federal) should be condemned as the gambling permits are also issued by the Federal Government,” he said.

***********************************************

Federal Constitution of Malaysia

Article 8

1. All persons are equal before the law and entitled to the equal protection of the law.

2. Except as expressly authorized by this Constitution, there shall be no discrimination against citizens on the ground only of religion, race, descent or place of birth in any law relating to the acquisition, holding or disposition of property or the establishing or carrying on of any trade, business, profession, vocation or employment.

Article 11

1. Every person has the right to profess and practice his religion and, subject to Clause (4), to propagate it.

2. No person shall be compelled to pay any tax the proceeds of which are specially allocated in whole or in part for the purposes of a religion other than his own.

Citizens for PAS DAP Consensus

Further to Solution for PAS DAP disagreement re Hudud & Islamic State, it is good to announce that we are now a team of 4 and possibly one more from PAS. The first thing is what are we going to call our initiative/efforts/drive/......

I had suggested PAS DAP Conciliation initiative. A member suggested consensus is a better word so let's look at the definitions of these 2 words

Conciliation: the state of manifesting goodwill and cooperation after being reconciled; "there was a brief period of conciliation but the fighting soon resumed"

Consensus: Consensus is defined in English as, firstly, general agreement and, secondly, group solidarity of belief or sentiment. It has its origin in a Latin word meaning literally to feel together.

OK perhaps Citizens for PAS DAP Consensus would be better? That would be giving a message to both PAS and DAP that we citizens want them to come to a clear consensus over this Hudud and Islamic State issues so that when it is time to vote, we citizens know exactly what we are voting for.

If you have other suggestions, we would be happy to hear about it.

There was an article by Zeffri Yusof over at Malaysian Insider Do not PAS go, do not collect hudud where he had some suggestions for PAS some of which we may want to incorporate? Do give us your views:

1. Explain clearly to its own coalition first and get their buy in with regards to its Islamic state plans (including and especially how non-Muslims or “dhimmis” fare) and hudud law — before repeating it to the larger public. We would all be interested to know what PAS would do if it gets to practise hudud. Judging from past action, some are betting that its first priority is policing women’s attire as opposed to something more substantial. It behooves PAS to clarify.

2. Be realistic about its Islamic state ambitions. Instead of the whole country — which would require two-thirds majority and the consent of the King to amend the constitution — perhaps just being selective in favour of its strong states as “syariah experiment zones”, leaving the rest of the country secular. Well, if BN can divide and rule along racial lines, perhaps PR along ideological lines. At least people can see how commercially (e.g. tourism), scientifically (e.g. innovation) and socially (e.g. integration) the hudud states would fare.

3. Resist from falling back on the “if only the critics would understand the principles of hudud” line; or that criticising hudud is somehow “sensitive”. Here’s the thing: the fact that people are questioning hudud should tell its advocates that people care enough to want to understand. PAS’s job is not merely to defend its position, but win people over. It is the duty of hudud proponents to explain and enlighten through persuasive argument. In fact, they should do what other disciplines do when they need to communicate a position — publish a position paper, debate in an open forum, etc.

4. When going public with hudud, refrain from using “argument from authority” or “appeal to authority” when claiming why hudud is “just and fair” because not only is that approach dogmatic, it does not wash with non-Muslims and non-believers. A rational, empirical approach would be appreciated — for example, a comparison between how secular and syariah law might address the same issues differently, or citing historical and current examples of successfully implemented hudud (hopefully not Saudi Arabia or Iran).

5. And last but not least, that PAS does not assume that all Malaysian Muslims are for PAS’s brand of hudud. I say PAS’s hudud because taking all of Islam’s schisms and fiqh schools and mazhabs into consideration, no way can PAS claim it holds the one and only legitimate view.